MLA & TIR Area Managers and Supervisors

The following excerpt is a conversation from the Nova Scotia legislature Hansard reports for May 14, 2008 during which the MLAs were considering the estimates of the Department of Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal when the Assembly is in the Committee of the Whole and members of the Opposition are allotted time to question the minister.  (During this time the minister has key members of staff to assist in the explanation oft he numbers or policies related to the estimates).   Nova Scotia Legislature - Hansard Transcript (nslegislature.ca)


I really encourage the honourable member to work with the area manager if you have concerns like that, to discuss them with the area manager and maybe even meet with all the supervisors together, I've done that myself, as well. Sit down with the area managers and the OSs, if they're having a meeting, ask if you can come as well to talk about those issues. You may find there may be some reason why that's happening, but I think you'd find that basically the level of service should be the same across your constituency no matter where the boundaries are between OS jurisdictions. I think probably the proper way to work that through is, if you can't deal with the OS, then probably with the area manager who, I'm sure, would want to work with you to resolve it.
MS. CONRAD: Thank you for that and perhaps it is that I haven't asked that particular question with the area manager. The level of service, I think, is comparable in the sense that I know the priority areas are being looked after. You made mention that perhaps the OS is looking at bush cutting as a priority for that particular section, whereas perhaps in the other section the priority could be ditching, so yes, I can see where those decisions are being made more at the local level. I will follow through and discuss that more thoroughly on the local level, so thank you for that.
It was much appreciated, when you became Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal, to get an invite to sit down and discuss with you some of our local priorities or what I hear coming into my office as residents' requests, or thoughts around their priorities and all of our priorities. I have to say the previous minister also extended that invite and it's a good way to communicate and start conveying. Can you tell me when we, as members, come to the department, come to the minister and give you our list of priorities - and a lot of times we have either chatted with TIR staff locally or we've travelled the roads ourselves to make sure that when we are submitting a list to the minister, to the department, that it is a comprehensive list and that we're just not asking to have money poured into a road that perhaps goes to the end of nowhere and no one is living on it - so can you tell me, when you receive our priority lists, how a decision is made based on the information you're getting from TIR, because they would have a separate priority list coming into the department saying look, this is the work we need to continue with, this is the work we'd like to start, here is our list, here's your member's list and then here is perhaps another list that has come to your attention from somewhere else, so could you tell me how those decisions are made?
MR. SCOTT: Mr. Chairman, I thank the member opposite for the question. Obviously in each area an OS would, through their own endeavour to their supervisor, the area manager, submit to them what they believe to be priorities in their areas. That would be passed along through the region, and obviously into Halifax, and that would come from all across the province. The department would do assessments of those roads. There would be an assessment done on the road, for example, the traffic on the road, the condition of the road, the type of work that we require to bring that road up to standard. So that would be the list the department would have and those roads would be listed in areas of priority based on that and based on the traffic and so on.
When the honourable member, for example, submits her list, the department then would run the numbers on your top priorities. What we find a lot of times, the top priorities for the department would be the same as the top priorities for the honourable member. So a lot of times there's really no need to do any more work but if the honourable member had a top priority that was absolutely the priority in the area and it wasn't one necessarily the department had, the department would run the numbers on that as well to see kind of where it fits in, to see if it's anywhere near what the department determines would be the priority and kind of take it from there. Of course, then it depends on the amount of budgeting you would have for each area and we're back again to what I talked about earlier about costs.
I want to make sure that everybody in the House understands, particularly when it comes to paving, because that's what everybody's interest is in really is paving. We've talked about paving in the province, you know, $250,000 per kilometre to $300,000.Keeping in mind that when we talk about petroleum increasing in this province, that means that liquid asphalt goes up. I believe it went from $450 to $685. So that gives you an idea of the additional costs there we're going to face for paving this season. When paving goes up, the contractors who have contracted prior and had been awarded tenders, there's an adjustment in there for their extra costs.

​The truckers through the association who provided work for us also have a fuel adjustment clause which we have a base which is presently $1 a litre and you know what the price of gas is now. So because of the extra cost for them now, we have to adjust up our prices to them as well. Actually with the increase we've seen with that $1, actually now represented a 22 per cent increase that we're facing just for the trucking costs. So there are all kinds of factors that come into play when we look at a priority list for the honourable member's area, for example, her priority list, how we marry them up, then we decide what kind of dollars we have for an area and then, of course, taking into consideration those things I just talked about, those have to be all factored in as well. So you can see there are all kinds of challenges when it comes to determining what work we can do, where we can do it, and when we can do it.
I can tell you and, again, I mentioned the other night as well, we're presently looking at the processes we have in place today for repaving in Nova Scotia and that's being reviewed now. It's being reviewed with the Road Builders Association. One last thing that helps determine the roads in the honourable member's area, for example, would be the number of kilometres of paved roads in that particular riding. So those are all factored in at the end of the day to help us determine which roads we would do in the honourable member's riding, for example.
MS. CONRAD: I'm wondering, too, if there are any other considerations, economical considerations or financial considerations around paving besides the standard formulae that are used in terms of condition, age of roads, the base, the cost of materials and the population of the particular community, what other factors would be used, traffic volume, what type of traffic, how many residents, all of those. I wonder if there are other factors that the department has looked at in the past or perhaps could look at in the future when determining whether a road in a community, a secondary road, should be paved.
I guess what I'm talking about is the economic viability of a community. Because in order for a lot of our rural communities to grow - and certainly we have a number of challenges in our rural communities with out-migration of youth, aging population - we're trying to attract people back into our communities. So infrastructure in and around our communities is a huge attraction - not an attraction, to some people when they're deciding where they may locate or choosing a community to live. So secondary roads play a key factor in people deciding to move into a community or set up a business in a community. Of course, with economic viability, a strong economy in small communities, there is a much larger tax base which gives the government coffers more money to enable us to continue with maintenance or preventive programs with our infrastructure. So, is there that type of consideration taken into all of the costs and all of the formulae that the department uses to determine whether or not a road can get resurfaced or rehabilitated?

Anyway, back to the honourable member's question. I guess the question was, are there opportunities for outside the general determination of which roads are paved and what processes are determined that we use in that particular road? Are there opportunities for extenuating circumstances or other considerations that could be given with regard to paving a specific road? The answer is yes and I'll give an example.
The honourable member asked if, for example, it could be for economic reasons and I'm sure the department would take that into consideration. I'm not sure if it was about two years ago, I believe, that the Department of Tourism embarked upon a task force of sorts that included the Department of Transportation. In their deliberations part of that was in regard to transportation initiatives throughout the province and how that affected tourism. For example, I know that part of their recommendation was on specific roads in the province which included Peggy's Cove, the Cabot Trail, and I believe there were two or three other roads I remember reading. Those were two roads.
In fact, after eight years the Peggy's Cove Road, with eight kilometres of paving being done this year, will actually complete that whole project of around 60 kilometres. That's kind of an area where you would see specific to an industry - tourism - Peggy's Cove being as popular as it is. Knowing and understanding that really, when you start work on a highway road like that, you really need to continue to work on it until you actually finish the project. I'm glad to say that project will be finished this year.
I know the Cabot Trail is another one I hear a lot about and I'm pleased to say that we will be doing work on the Cabot Trail and it will be an annual program that will take place until we can get that work done. People come from all over the world to go into the Highlands of Cape Breton, the Cabot Trail is famous everywhere. We need to do all we can to ensure that we bring those roads up to a condition, not only for local traffic, for residents, for business, but also for tourists who come here to see this beautiful province of ours so that they have good roads to travel on.
I want to continue to say that I am very proud that we have been able to, over the past number of years, increase the budget to where, I believe, we'll be able to see some great results with the amount of work that is being done in absolutely every riding, including my own. There are lots of roads that I'd love to see done in my own riding that should be done, that need to be done. I know the honourable member has them in her riding as well and she mentioned them to me. There will always be that need and we need to ensure that we get a good amount of capital monies in our budgets to address that. We'll never be able to do enough each year. But I really do believe with the amount of dollars we've been able to put into our capital budget the last few years, it goes a long way to bring the roads up to a standard that people expect, both residents and those who visit us alike.
MS. CONRAD: Thank you. I would just like to respectfully remind the minister of the many secondary roads in some of the communities in the riding of Queens, where
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economic viability and growth is just so important. As much as I love the area of Peggy's Cove, I grew up in that area and I still have family in that area and visit it frequently - absolutely, it's an important part of the province as is the Cabot Trail.
Some of the communities that I see as vitally important to the riding of Queens, and with the potential of growth, includes the communities of Petite Rivière which is on the Lighthouse Route, the community of Port Medway which is on the Lighthouse Route, and the community of Southwest Port Mouton which is on the Lighthouse Route. Also, I'd like to mention Voglers Cove which is part of the Lighthouse Route as well - it comes up from Petite Rivière and it connects back onto Highway No. 103, up through East Port Medway and down again through Port Medway. So that's a vital link to the Lighthouse Route for the riding of Queens and for the rest of the province, linking tourists from Peggy's Cove right straight through to Yarmouth if they wanted to travel that beautiful route.




I want to move on to some other questions. One suggestion that has come to me over the last couple of years, and certainly it is one that I have thought of myself as a need in this province along our 100-Series Highways, is the need for rest areas - a place where a tourist, a visitor or someone travelling from one end of the province to the other could pull over. There's nowhere to pull off on Highway No. 103 and there aren't many areas to pull off on Highway No. 104, Highway No. 107, Highway No. 101 - if a visitor isn't sure when they're going to get to the next restroom, for example - or a place just to pull off and maybe sit for 15 or 20 minutes before they continue on. Has the province or has the department ever considered maybe clearing off a section perhaps, every 45 minutes to an hour of travel where there would be a pull-off stop for visitors in the province?
MR. SCOTT: Mr. Chairman, I thank the member opposite for the very important questions. I would just like to start by saying - the honourable member would appreciate this as well - since we started deliberations in the estimates on Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal, we've talked about repaving 100-Series Highways. We've talked about actually
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twinning highways, we've talked about paving gravel roads, we've talked about roadbeds. We've talked about paving of routes, trunks and secondary roads, so there is a wide variety of need in this province, there's no question about it.
I did want to say as well, as the member would know, there are two contracts out this year on Highway No. 8, I believe around the Liverpool-Caledonia area, there's eight kilometres and I think there is 10 on Highway No. 8 farther down into Annapolis, so those two sections are going ahead this year. Again, with such great demand, how do you say which piece of road is actually the most important road in your riding, and the member and I have talked about that. It is very difficult to do that. All you can do is develop a list of the ones that are most important to you, several roads that are the most important in your riding that you hear from people and you know, based on all the things the honourable member talked about, whether it's for local residents.
I said the other day in my own riding, I have some small museums on some secondary roads and those roads are very important to those individuals who work so hard volunteering their time to build these museums. Minudie is a good example in my area, I talked about it to the Minister of Health. With the strong francophone connection there, they've done a tremendous amount of work. They have a one-room schoolhouse, they have a church and a museum there. The road down through there was just deplorable and people from all over the world would come there because of the heritage.
When you look at that road - and I know the honourable member has the same in her riding - versus a route or a trunk that has a lot more traffic and maybe does lead from one community to another, some people wouldn't see the justification, for example, of paving one over the other. When the honourable member really knows there's a need and it certainly requires the attention of the department - again, it is very difficult to determine which road you do first, you have to start somewhere.
I will say that I know in my own situation and I'm sure a lot of members would feel the same way, if the department is able to identify a road that needs to be repaved and it's 14 kilometres long and you're going to do six or seven kilometres on it this year, I would hope that we'd see a following section done the following year to finish that as opposed to jumping all over the place.
The other thing I want to mention, as well, that was brought up during the estimates, was whether we could actually decrease the size of projects. Instead of making that 14 kilometres, two sevens, could you actually make it three fours and a two, but what that does is it drives the cost up. It's really important for the department to get as long a stretch as we possibly can with the budget we have and try to finish those projects, I would think, over a several year plan - whether it's two years, three years, four years, five years or, in the case of Peggy's Cove, it actually turns out to be eight years.
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With regard to the issue of rest areas, or places for the public to pull off, whether for scenic views or just to stop to take a rest, again, the department considers the issue around safety. I'll use an example of my own area, I know where a development association in one particular area - Route 209 - they, through their association, had some funds and actually developed a pull-off area, a very scenic area, which wasn't done when that road was actually put through there.
It all comes down to funding, the availability of having the funds to not only be able to pave that road, but possibly do as the honourable member is asking. I know something you asked in the House was around areas on highways for bicycle traffic and I know the honourable member asked about that. I know it's an important issue to her and she's raised it in this House. In the St. Anns area, for example, we have a project underway where we're actually allowing for a lane for bicycle traffic as a project to try it, on the paved portion for bicycle traffic.
But we can't do that all over the province for all kinds of reasons. Sometimes the roads aren't wide enough to allow for that, maybe it's not safe. It may be in an area where the road itself, whether it's quite hilly or twisty, it may not be conducive to that type of traffic. But we are going to, in the department - the honourable member asked me about it a few months ago - when we are doing repaving and we look at road construction, we'll look at opportunities to actually put those bicycle routes in wherever we possibly can. Again, it won't be every time we pave or build a road, but we're going to try to do it in some areas.
[5:45 p.m.]
I will say to the honourable member, we'll take your request under consideration about rest areas or opportunities for the public to pull off for scenic opportunities or for information - again, keeping in mind that we only have so much money in our budget and we're trying to do the best we can. Again, I mentioned the other day we have provincial responsibilities, there will be paving tenders in every one of the members' ridings where we have provincial responsibility. We're trying to make those dollars stretch as far as we can, we want to get good value for the dollar.
Back to what I said earlier about reviewing the process we presently have in place. It's all a matter of priorities and taking the available dollars and doing the best we can with them. I think the department does a good job of that. But, anyway, I will take the honourable member's suggestions under consideration and certainly discuss it with the department.

DISCRETIONARY FUNDING:
MR. SCOTT: Mr. Chairman, I thank the member for the question. He's absolutely right, there were additional costs that the department faced last year as a result of those flooding issues that the honourable member mentioned. I can tell the honourable member that there is a certain amount of money that would be kept within the department for situations like that, that we would be able to access in the event situations occur that they're out of our control and they're not expected, and can't be budgeted for actually. One year you may need it and one year you may not. If you don't need it next year for flooding, we'll probably need it for something different. So the department does keep some and there is availability and discretionary monies in the department that can be used for that type of, I guess, occurrence taking place.
I will say as well, and the honourable member would be well aware of this, if in the event we have that type of damage province-wide and it meets the federal program for disaster funds, where the province I believe has to pay the first $1 million and then we will be able to access monies nationally and federally, then certainly we would apply for those funds as well. That has happened in the past and, in fact, just happened quite recently over the last few years. So there are two things there - money is available within the department, yes, and obviously we would look to the federal government to assist in fact if it's over $1 million damage province-wide.
MR. GAUDET: I'm just curious, the minister made reference to this so-called discretionary fund that's within the department. I guess the obvious question is, how much is in this discretionary fund and where would we find it in the department's budget?
MR. SCOTT: Mr. Chairman, to the honourable member, thank you for the question. On Page 23.9 under Maintenance Improvements, under Roads, we would keep $0.5 million to $1 million of non-TCA money available for events such as the honourable member brought forward.